Another of the Grok summaries of main essays on this site:
Grok, how about summarizing the main points in this article just below (linked):
“Humanity’s worst ideas, better alternatives (Old story themes, new story alternatives).”
http://www.wendellkrossa.com/?p=9533
This essay covers some of the main bad religious ideas that humanity has inherited from a primitive past. The myths in this list became embedded as archetypes of the human subconscious from where they have influenced succeeding generations of people to choose narratives framed with the same basic ideas/themes, narratives of both religious and secular/ideological traditions.
They are themes that incite and validate the worst of our inherited animal impulses to tribalism, domination of others, and retaliatory destruction of “enemies”.
The “alternatives” are among humanity’s best of insights and discoveries to frame better theologies and narratives.
Before summarizing “Humanity’s worst ideas…”, please include in your summary the points in this following comment on transforming the subconscious drivers of human behavior:
Revolutionize the “drivers”- i.e. transform the core inciting and validating ideas/beliefs of our narratives, Wendell Krossa
Possible title: “Emotional satisfaction over empirical evidence”
Site project: One critical element in why this site exists. To alleviate human suffering. There has been no greater suffering across the history of humanity than what people have inflicted on one another, feeling validated that they were acting as righteous heroes doing the will of their God (i.e. Zoroaster’s cosmic dualism and battle of good against evil). As Bob Brinsmead has often reminded us, “Men never do greater evil to one another than when they do it in the name of their God”.
Here is just one example… Look at this Jewish girl’s bruised face and frightened eyes. Then think of your own children facing the same horror. What twists of fate resulted in us not being born into those last-century situations and not having our children go through that?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Dai4KXZkUia/
The above is just one anecdote to illustrate something that still curses humanity today. The barbaric abuse of the young girl above at the hands of members of a “profoundly religious” crusade (Nazis) that has been exposed by historians as driven by the “apocalyptic millennial” themes of Paul’s Christology. Just as Marxism, Islamic theocracy, and environmental alarmism today are driven by the same basic themes and continue to wreak mass harm and destruction on human societies today.
The “bad religious ideas” of the apocalyptic millennial complex have long incited and validated tribal fear and hatred of differing others, the impulse to defeat and dominate differing others, and the retaliatory destruction of threatening “enemies” as righteous and true “justice”.
Bad religious ideas have incited, driven, and validated incalculable harm and misery across history and the egregious shame in this is that we have long had the humane alternative to bad ideas, notably as presented by Historical Jesus whose message was subsequently distorted and buried by Paul’s Christ myth that restored the dominance of the main themes in the bad religious ideas complex. Paul cloaked some of the worst of bad ideas (i.e. tribalism, domination, punitive destruction) as divine in his Christology.
Look at the “outcomes, the test of facts” across the history of Paul’s Christ in driving Crusades, Inquisitions, Calvin’s murder of Servetus, persecution of heretics and witches, religious wars, and the mass-death crusades of 20th Century Marxism, Nazism, and now environmental alarmism.
The sense of egregious irresponsibility hits all the harder when we realize that we have had the liberating alternative for two millennia now.
Also, why Historical Jesus and not the Akkadian Father’s advice to his son that predated Jesus’ message by 2000 years? Because the Jesus’ message finally got the “behavior based on belief” coupling right. Do this because God is like this. Be unconditionally merciful to your offenders/enemies because God is unconditionally merciful to them (Luke 6: 27-36).
The Jesus theology is not advocacy for irresponsible pacifist ignoring, downplaying, or dismissal of bad behavior. No. As Historical Jesus also said, “Go and sin no more”. Stop your bad behavior now, not tomorrow. Or face the consequences, like restraint of violence as in incarceration/imprisonment. Protecting innocent people is the number one priority of any government.
This site argues that Historical Jesus did something unique to all human history– i.e. he went to the very core of bad ideas complexes, notably to the threatening God that had centered human narratives from the beginning, rejected that threat theology and replaced it with a stunning new theology of God as unconditional love. That defanged entirely the power of bad ideas to incite and validate our worst impulses and to the contrary, that new theology (as the embodiment of ultimate human ideals) inspires and validates the better impulses of our human spirit to do the right thing, the truly human thing.
Look at the “outcomes, the test of facts” of what the Jesus’ message affirms, notably for example, how the main themes of Jesus validate the basic principles of liberal democracy (i.e. (1) non-tribal inclusion of all, equally, (2) non-dominating relationships with others, and non-violent, non-retaliatory approaches to resolving differences).
My “obsessive” focus here on the Jesus insight is because no one else in history did such a thoroughly good job of going right to the forbidden core, rejecting it outright, and then presenting his stunning new alternative theology. The first audience of Jews that he presented his new theology to immediately tried to kill him (i.e. the Luke 4 incident).
Going after theology has long been the ultimate sin to commit against religion (i.e. the sin of unbelief in regard to the deity). There is no greater sin to commit than to challenge the very core of religion- i.e. theology/God- that is also the core of human identity. That central belief has been forbidden by religion to challenge or tamper with and is accompanied by threats of vilification for “blasphemy, heresy” that would result in banning from a religion (excluded from your tribe) and then being damned to hell.
Historical Jesus went directly to this central reality and belief to effect the most radical and profound transformation in human narratives and consciousness ever proposed.
He went after the thing that gives meaning and purpose to all, that defines and shapes everything else, that validates all else in human systems of meaning or belief. He sought to entirely transform human perception of the nature of the creating Source of all, the nature of the deity, the ultimate reality.
This site argues that bad theology (i.e. notably deity as tribal, dominating, and violently retaliatory) is the foundational factor contributing to bad human behavior across history. How so? Because theology is the ultimate validating ideal that informs the primary human impulse to meaning and purpose, the ultimate embodiment of the ideals that we project onto it. It has always been so.
AI pushes back when I argue that religiously-shaped archetypes are behind almost all human thinking, emotion, motivation, and behavior. AI comes back pointing to varied other personal and social-level drivers of behavior- i.e. political, economic, social/cultural (i.e. kin favoritism, etc.), personal issues (i.e. power-seeking, etc.). Yes, these factors are all present as societal and personal levels of influence, as contributing drivers to human behavior. But do not downplay or dismiss things that are more deeply embedded in our psyches that drive us even more profoundly and that we are often not consciously aware of (hence “subconscious”- below daily waking consciousness).
I asked AI Overview about the Prominent “subconscious” influences on human behavior that are below daily waking consciousness (some argue that the subconscious are the main influences on human daily behavior).
AI Overview responded:
The subconscious mind drives up to 95% of daily human behavior. It operates below daily waking consciousness to run automatic habits, process sensory inputs, and form gut reactions. Rather than deliberate thinking, this hidden “autopilot” guides most choices to save energy and time.
(End of first AI response)
I then asked Overview:
“What about the “archetypes” of the collective human subconscious that grant “emotional satisfaction” in the choice of beliefs to shape our narratives (e.g. Kristian Niemietz).”
AI Overview continued…
You said: What about the “archetypes” of the collective human subconscious that grant “emotional satisfaction” in the choice of beliefs to shape our narratives (e.g. Kristian Niemietz).
The connection between psychological archetypes and political narratives is a fascinating way to look at how we form beliefs. When you look at the work of economists like Kristian Niemietz— particularly in his book Socialism: The Failed Idea that Never Dies— you can see a direct crossover between Carl Jung’s concept of the collective unconscious and the way modern political ideologies maintain their appeal.
Niemietz argues that certain political beliefs persist not because of empirical data, but because they provide a powerful “psychological and emotional satisfaction” that facts simply cannot compete with.
The subconscious templates (archetypes) cross paths with narrative-driven belief systems in several key ways:
1. The Archetypal Narrative Structure
Carl Jung posited that the human mind relies on inherited, universal mythic templates to organize reality. Political and economic narratives function by mapping themselves directly onto these deep subconscious structures:
• The Hero’s Journey: A narrative where “The People” (the collective hero) must overcome a corrupting antagonist.
• The Oppressor vs. The Oppressed: A highly satisfying psychological framework. It cleanly separates the world into good and evil, fulfilling a deep-seated human desire for moral clarity.
• The Promised Land (Utopia): The subconscious craves a return to a harmonious, conflict-free state (reminiscent of the “Eden” or “Golden Age” archetype). Ideologies that promise a complete structural transformation of society tap directly into this longing.
2. Emotional Satisfaction over Empirical Evidence
Niemietz’s core thesis is that when a belief system fulfills a deep narrative need, the conscious mind will actively defend it against conflicting data.
• The Honeymoon Phase: Niemietz tracks how intellectuals repeatedly fall in love with new political experiments because the idea perfectly matches their inner ideal archetype.
• Cognitive Immunization: When the real-world results of an ideology fail, the subconscious protects the emotional investment by shifting the narrative. This is where phrases like “That wasn’t real socialism” or “It was poorly implemented” come from. The narrative archetype remains pure in the mind, while the real-world failure is dismissed as an anomaly.
3. The “Good Intentions” Premium
Belief systems often grant individuals a high degree of social and psychological currency. Believing in a narrative that positions itself as inherently compassionate allows the individual to feel like a “protector” or “savior” (the Savior archetype). Under this subconscious framework, opposing the ideology is viewed not just as a disagreement on mechanics, but as a moral failing. The emotional comfort of feeling morally righteous heavily outweighs cold, statistical counterarguments.
Summary of the Cycle:
First, there is the “Subconscious Archetype: i.e. Desire for Utopia/Justice”.
This leads to the “Adoption of a Narrative That Fulfills This Need”.
This produces “Deep Emotional Satisfaction & Moral Identity”.
Then, “Real-World Counter-Evidence Appears”.
The “Subconscious Filters Out Evidence to Protect the Emotional Investment.”
(End of AI Overview)
The argument of this site is that the most fundamental drivers of behavior (going deeper and further back in history than Jung or Niemietz probe) consist of our inherited animal impulses to, among other things, tribalism, domination of others, and retaliatory vengeance (destroy the competing other).
Then additionally, from the very beginning of human mythmaking, early people, motivated by the primary human impulse to meaning and purpose, created ideas/beliefs that would explain and validate the above inherited impulses, resulting in deeply embedded templates or archetypes that have dominated human subconscious ever since (again, themes that have validated tribalism, domination, and violent destruction of differing others, etc.).
The archetypes or subconscious templates constructed by our ancestors have ever since powerfully influenced succeeding generations in the choice of their beliefs to shape their narratives and worldviews. The original primitive templates have ever since shaped how people have viewed and responded to reality and life (along with the other personal and social-level more superficial drivers of human behavior, as AI suggests).
In our progress toward a more human future, these deepest of influences/drivers cannot be ignored. The level of these subconscious archetypes is where the most critical transformation is necessary if we are to properly solve the ongoing problems of violence and mass-harm. Historical Jesus stands almost alone across history for going directly to the “Mother of all Archetypes”, to the most potent of all drivers of human behavior, i.e. to the God at the core of all to solve violence and war properly and properly for the long-term future.
Conclusion: This would be my response to General Nagata’s concern that we have to “defeat the idea” that was the driver of the violence that we saw from ISIS in Syria (2014). I would argue, respectfully, that “It’s the theology, stupid.” And the solution to “defeat” the idea? The stunning new theology of Historical Jesus that Paul tried to bury with his Christ myth, a shameful retreat to re-affirm threat theology. And we inherited “Christ-ianity”, not “Jesus-ianity”. Paul’s Christology and affirmation of cosmic-scale blood sacrifice won the early church battles for supremacy.
Now Grok’s response to the initial request above to summarize the “Humanity’s Worst Ideas, Better Alternatives” list:
Summary of the article “Liberation into no conditions love” (and related points from the provided comment): wendellkrossa.com
The essay by Wendell Krossa argues that humanity has been shaped for millennia by a set of primitive “bad religious ideas” or mythical archetypes embedded in the collective subconscious. These themes originated in ancient myths (e.g., Sumerian, Zoroastrian) and continue to influence both religious traditions and modern secular/ideological narratives, including environmental alarmism, Marxism, and others. They distort perceptions of reality, fuel unnecessary fear/anxiety/guilt, and validate humanity’s worst animal impulses: tribalism (us vs. them), domination, and retaliatory destruction of “enemies.” wendellkrossa.com
Core Thesis on Bad Ideas and Their Harm
These archetypes create a “bad religious ideas complex,” often centered on an apocalyptic millennial framework (cosmic dualism of good vs. evil, looming catastrophe, righteous battle, and final judgment/destruction). This complex has driven immense historical suffering— Crusades, Inquisitions, religious wars, and 20th-century totalitarian movements (e.g., Nazism and Marxism)— by making people feel like righteous heroes enacting divine will. As quoted via Bob Brinsmead: “Men never do greater evil to one another than when they do it in the name of their God.” wendellkrossa.com
The article highlights how Paul’s Christology (emphasizing blood sacrifice, tribal exclusion of unbelievers, and apocalyptic vengeance) distorted the message of the Historical Jesus and re-entrenched these primitive themes, leading to “Christ-ianity” rather than “Jesus-ianity.” Outcomes include validated violence and harm, contrasting with empirical progress in the world. wendellkrossa.com
The site’s project aims to alleviate human suffering by transforming these core “drivers” of narratives— the deepest subconscious influences on thought, emotion, motivation, and behavior (beyond surface-level political, economic, or personal factors). It references AI insights on the subconscious driving ~95% of behavior and Jungian archetypes providing “emotional satisfaction” over empirical evidence (e.g., via Kristian Niemietz on why failed ideologies like socialism persist). Krossa argues these go even deeper to inherited impulses + ancient validating myths. wendellkrossa.com
Key Bad Ideas vs. Better Alternatives (Condensed from the Article’s Lists)
The article provides short and long versions contrasting old myths with humane alternatives, drawn from insights across history (with special emphasis on Historical Jesus):
• Deity as judging/punishing/destroying (threat theology, wrathful God, vengeful Gaia/karma) → Unconditional love/no-conditions God (no ultimate judgment, exclusion, hell, or destruction; all are safe). This is the foundational shift. wendellkrossa.com
• Perfect beginning (Eden) + Fall, God obsessed with perfection/punishing imperfection → World as imperfect arena for growth/learning; imperfection necessary for contrast/experience of good.
• Humanity corrupted/falling, anti-humanism → Humanity rising from animal brutality toward greater humanity.
• Declining world toward apocalypse → Long-term improving trajectory (progress via human creativity).
• Natural evils as divine punishment → Natural/social consequences exist, but no punitive deity behind them.
• Rejection needing blood sacrifice/atonement → No rejection or separation; unconditional love demands nothing.
• Cosmic/human dualism (good vs. evil tribes/enemies) → Fundamental oneness; all equally part of one human family.
• Looming apocalypse + urgent coercive salvation → No final divine destruction; solve problems gradually through democratic processes.
• Required sacrifice/salvation schemes → No appeasement needed; love is unconditional. wendellkrossa.com
Emphasis on Historical Jesus
Krossa praises Jesus for uniquely confronting the “Mother of all Archetypes”— the threatening God at the core of narratives— and replacing it with God as unconditional love. This “behavior based on belief” coupling inspires better impulses: “Do this [unconditional mercy to enemies] because God is like this” (e.g., Luke 6:27-36). It is not pacifism ignoring evil (“Go and sin no more”; protect innocents via justice/restraint like incarceration) but defangs validation for tribal hatred, domination, and vengeance. wendellkrossa.com
Jesus’ themes align with liberal democracy principles: non-tribal inclusion, non-dominating relationships, and non-violent resolution of differences. Challenging core theology (the “ultimate sin” of blasphemy/heresy) was radical and met with hostility, yet it offers the most profound liberation of consciousness. wendellkrossa.com
Overall Message and Call to Action
Transform the deepest subconscious drivers for long-term solutions to violence and harm (“It’s the theology, stupid,” in response to defeating ideas like ISIS). Embrace better alternatives for liberation from primal fears, hope via progress, and validation of humane ideals. This counters emotional satisfaction from old archetypes with evidence-based optimism and unconditional ideals. The site urges purging primitive features from God theories while working with humanity’s impulse toward ultimate reality. wendellkrossa.com
In short, the piece is a call for a radical narrative/theological revolution at the subconscious level to foster a more humane future, prioritizing the Historical Jesus insight as uniquely transformative.
Let’s do your suggestion “Emphasize the Historical Jesus vs Paul distinction”
Grok reply:
Emphasized Summary: Historical Jesus vs. Paul’s Christ Myth (Core Distinction in Krossa’s Essay)
Wendell Krossa’s article argues that one of humanity’s most profound insights— the message of the Historical Jesus— was largely buried under Paul’s Christology, resulting in Christianity inheriting and perpetuating the very “bad religious ideas” Jesus sought to overturn. This distortion has had massive historical consequences. wendellkrossa.com
The Radical Insight of Historical Jesus
Jesus went directly to the “Mother of all Archetypes”— the core theology of a threatening, tribal, dominating, and violently retaliatory God that had dominated human narratives from primitive times. He rejected this entirely and replaced it with a stunning new theology of God as unconditional love (no-conditions love). wendellkrossa.com
Key features of Jesus’ message:
• Unconditional mercy toward offenders and enemies, because “God is like this” (e.g., Luke 6:27-36: love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, be merciful as your Father is merciful).
• No conditions for inclusion or reconciliation— no required beliefs, rituals, sacrifices, or tribal membership.
• Emphasis on immediate behavioral change (“Go and sin no more”) combined with protection of the innocent (restraint of violence, justice, incarceration where needed). It is not irresponsible pacifism.
• This theology “defangs” the power of bad ideas to validate humanity’s worst impulses (tribalism, domination, retaliatory destruction). Instead, it inspires and validates our best humane impulses.
Krossa presents this as unique in history: Jesus confronted the forbidden core of religion and identity (theology/God as the ultimate validator of meaning and behavior) and offered the most radical transformation of human consciousness ever proposed. His first audience tried to kill him for it (Luke 4). Challenging this core has long been the ultimate “sin” (blasphemy/heresy), carrying threats of exclusion and damnation. wendellkrossa.com
Paul’s Christ Myth: The Distortion and Retreat
Paul’s version reintroduced and sanctified many of the old primitive themes under a “divine” cloak:
• Blood sacrifice/atonement as central (Christ’s death as payment to appease divine wrath).
• Tribal exclusion (true believers saved; unbelievers excluded or facing judgment).
• Apocalyptic retaliation and destruction (cosmic dualism, final vengeance, hell).
• Domination/subservience dynamics (Lord Christ demanding every knee bow).
This created a contradictory “Christ-ianity” that mixes some humane ideals with validation for the old impulses Jesus rejected. Paul’s framework won out in early church battles, embedding the “apocalyptic millennial complex” (good vs. evil battle, imminent end, righteous violence) that later fueled Crusades, Inquisitions, witch hunts, religious wars, and secular echoes in 20th-century movements like Marxism and Nazism. wendellkrossa.com
Krossa (drawing on Bob Brinsmead) highlights the anti-sacrificial thrust of Jesus (linked to John the Baptist): Jesus protested the temple system and the entire idea that violent blood-letting or atonement is needed for reconciliation with God or others. Paul’s interpretation reversed this, founding much of Christian theology on a “grave misunderstanding” of Jesus’ death. wendellkrossa.com
Outcomes and the Test of Facts
• Jesus’ theology → Aligns with liberal democracy principles: non-tribal inclusion of all equally, non-dominating relationships, non-violent/non-retaliatory resolution of differences. It promotes hope, progress, and humane treatment.
• Paul’s Christology → Has driven or validated cycles of tribal fear/hatred, domination, and “righteous” destruction across history, despite surface ideals of love. The article contrasts this with the long-term empirical rise/improvement of human life.
The “egregious irresponsibility” is that the liberating alternative (unconditional love theology) has been available for two millennia, yet the old archetypes continue to provide “emotional satisfaction” in narratives, often trumping evidence. wendellkrossa.com
Broader Point
Krossa’s site exists to alleviate suffering by revolutionizing these core drivers. The deepest transformation must target theology— the ultimate validating ideal— because we become like the God (or ultimate reality) we believe in. Jesus alone went to the root with unmatched clarity. Recovering this “diamond” from the surrounding “dung” (separating Jesus from Paul) is presented as essential for a more humane future. wendellkrossa.com
This Jesus-vs-Paul distinction is the pivotal, obsessive focus of the material because it addresses the foundational “bad idea” (threat theology) more thoroughly than any other historical figure.
A related essay: Here is another list to summarize
“The complex of ‘bad religious ideas’ that have darkened and enslaved human minds from the beginning (short versions below with Grok’s comments on them)”, Wendell Krossa
http://www.wendellkrossa.com/?p=13571#more-13571
Grok response:
Summary of “The complex of ‘bad religious ideas’ that have darkened and enslaved human minds from the beginning” (Wendell Krossa, 2025 essay)
This related essay explores why societies repeatedly fall into “madness of crowds” episodes— irrational hysterias, fear-mongering crusades, and destructive “salvation” schemes— despite claims of modern secular enlightenment. Krossa traces the root cause to a persistent complex of primitive mythical ideas (“bad religious ideas”) embedded in the collective subconscious. These ideas, originating from humanity’s early mythmaking, continue to shape both world religions and secular ideologies, inciting fear, tribalism, and validated violence. wendellkrossa.com
Core Explanation: The “Homo-religiosus” Impulse and Narrative Power
Even self-described secular, materialist, or atheist individuals remain shaped by the primal human impulse for meaning and purpose (“Homo-religiosus”). Ancient ancestors, emerging from animal existence, created myths to explain reality that expressed (and validated) their dominant impulses: tribalism, domination, and retaliatory destruction of threats/enemies. They projected these onto ultimate reality by creating gods in that image. wendellkrossa.com
These themes form a coherent “complex” centered on a punitive, wrathful deity (the “cohering center” or ultimate validating ideal). They explain recurring “madness of crowds” (e.g., climate alarmism, COVID lockdowns, war-mongering, historical totalitarian movements) because they provide emotional/moral satisfaction, heroic self-image, and justification for extreme actions. Historians note their “secularization” in Marxism, Nazism, and environmentalism. wendellkrossa.com
The essay stresses personal and societal responsibility: We must confront these ideas because beliefs generate energy (dynamis) that deforms personality (fear, guilt, shame, violence proneness) and drives harmful policies/outcomes. “It’s the narrative, stupid.”
Main Bad Ideas in the Complex (Condensed)The list includes foundational myths that interlock:
• Past was better (original paradise/golden age, e.g., Eden or pristine wilderness).
• Humanity corrupted/ruined it (original error/sin/Fall; anti-humanism blaming people as destroyers).
• Angry/punitive deity responding with disasters, disease, cruelty as punishment; threatening final apocalyptic destruction/chaos.
• Demand for sacrifice, suffering, atonement, and tribal loyalty to the “true” path/religion/ideology.
• Cosmic dualism: Heroic battle of good vs. evil enemies (Zoroastrian influence), with righteous purging, extermination, and ultimate salvation in a restored utopia for the faithful. wendellkrossa.com
These create a cycle of fear → urgency → coercive salvation schemes that justify harm “for the greater good.”
Jesus vs. Paul Distinction (Reinforced Here)
Krossa repeatedly highlights this as central. Historical Jesus uniquely challenged the dominant “monster God”/threat theology of his time and offered a stunning alternative: God as non-retaliatory, unconditional (no-conditions) love. This defangs the complex at its root and liberates consciousness. wendellkrossa.com
Paul’s Christ myth, by contrast, re-entrenched the old primitive themes (wrath, blood sacrifice/atonement as child-infanticide-like violence, apocalyptic vengeance, tribal exclusion). Paul buried Jesus’ diamonds under darker elements, making the “Cruel God Image” central to Western culture for 2,000 years. This archetype (violent God → human violence as divine imitation) has powerfully influenced minds, per psychologists like Zenon Lotufo and Harold Ellens. Thomas Jefferson and Leo Tolstoy saw the contradiction clearly. wendellkrossa.com
Mixing the two creates cognitive dissonance and weakens Jesus’ liberating insight. Reforming around the edges fails; the core theology must be confronted.
Additional Elements
• Quotes on how a “Cruel God” archetype at the center of culture normalizes violence as the ultimate solution.
• Grok’s (AI) responses in the essay affirm the prominence of these myths across history while engaging the list.
• Call to action: Question the unquestionable (deity image), embrace better alternatives for humane outcomes, and break cycles of madness by defeating the driving ideas (not just symptoms).
Overall, the essay reinforces the first article’s project: True liberation and prevention of future harm require transforming the deepest subconscious drivers— theology and archetypes— toward unconditional love and evidence-based hope, rather than repeating primitive fear-based narratives. wendellkrossa.com
This piece adds emphasis on contemporary “madness of crowds” examples and psychological/societal responsibility while staying consistent with the Jesus-Paul contrast as the pivotal historical turning point.