The Unconditional Human Spirit

Below- My pushing AI (Grok and Chat) to understand the profound dualism and contrasts between the message of Historical Jesus and Paul’s Christ myth.

Why bother? Because the Christ of Paul has long functioned as a most influential archetype (“worldwide” according to scholars like James Tabor) validating human impulses to

(1) tribalism (“true believers saved, unbelievers damned”)…

(2) domination (deity as archetypal “Lord/King” functioning to validate elite domination of commoners- i.e. “divine right of kings/leaders”, etc.), and justice as…

(3) retaliatory destruction of enemies.

Historical Jesus countered these worst of bad impulses, and their related validating beliefs, with his stunning new theology of an unconditional deity. But his “diamond” discovery was subsequently buried in the New Testament under the dominating influence of Paul’s contrary Christ.

Hence, the repeated argument of this site that the merger of Historical Jesus with Paul’s Christ in “Jesus Christ” is history’s epitome “oxymoron” and has produced two millennia of cognitive dissonance (holding two entire opposites in merged tension) that is akin to a state of severe mental deformity in true believers.

But more than the ongoing confusion over the merged of two opposites has been the outcomes on entire populations in terms of mass-harm, the most horrific forms of harm. This has been revealed in the impact of threat theology in deforming human personality with fear, anxiety, guilt/shame, despair and depression, even nihilism that leads to violence as documented carefully by historians like Richard Landes, Arthur Mendel, David Redles, among others. They show the influence of Paul’s “apocalyptic millennial” Christology on the mass-death eruptions from Marxist revolutions, Nazi extermination crusades, and now in environmental alarmism hysteria. This evidence is “slap up the side of the head” wakeup stuff. The evidence is undeniable.

Anyway, some tussling below with the lead AIs over this.

This is continuation of the project to help solve General Nagata’s expressed concern that we can defeat eruptions of violence, such as from the Iranian theocrats, with military force but we haven’t yet solved the problem of the “idea” that drives such eruptions and they will recur again and again. Richard Landes concluded the same in regard to Nazi horrors. If you do not recognize how apocalyptic millennial ideas (epitomized in Paul’s Christ) can carry societies of good people into mass-death outbreaks then you have not learned anything from episodes like the Nazi horrors and will only see repeats of such madness. Read the rest of the opening comment here

The Triggernometry guests in the link below have explained what the Iran issue is really about. As they state, the theocrat leaders of Iran are committed to sparking the end of the world, just as the ISIS terrorists tried in Syria in 2014. And the Iranian leader’s pursuit of nuclear weapons is to enable them to fulfill their commitment to ultimate extermination.

Why? Their heads are filled with bad theocracy, with the mind-deforming image of a violent, destroying God who demands that they purge the evil enemies of their God, the unbelievers. Read the New Testament book of Revelation for a graphic portrayal of what is involved. Utter mass-scale violence is required to purify the world and prepare for the Messiah to come and install paradise. “Salvation through violent destruction” summarizes the theology that drives such madness.

The Iranian mullah’s threat was not just to Israel and to surrounding moderate Islamic countries. It was much worse and much wider. That is what bad religious ideas dominating people’s brains produces. Violence and war that threatens many more than just Israel.

So yes, to Kat Timpf’s concerns about what happens next. What might be the outcome as past ventures in places like Iraq illustrated? But then as Brian Kilmeade responds, if we do nothing then the threat remains the day after. Just as it got worse for Israel after repeated ceasefires with Hamas in Gaza over years previous to Oct. 7. The problem only got worse by passing it along.

Gutfeld! THE GREG GUTFELD FULL END SHOW 4/3/26 FOX BREAKING NEWS TODAY NEW EPISODE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSM_EOsyS6I

The leaders of the rational countries of the world are obligated by their number one priority to protect innocent people. And the past 47 years of pacification of the mullahs has not worked but only led to the mullahs getting closer and closer to nuclear weapons to spark their final stage of extermination of unbelievers as demanded by their God.

So yes Kat, we all hope for the best outcome, but doing nothing (“kicking the can down the road”) has only worsened the threat. You cannot reason and negotiate, as the Pope urges, with minds deformed by bad theology. And that affirms the argument of this site to heed General Nagata’s concern and confront the “idea” head on if you want to defeat it. We have the alternative, as this site details repeatedly. But solving/defeating this problem of repeated eruptions of mass-violence requires getting past any queasiness over challenging honored institutions and narratives that have long been protected “under the canopy of the sacred”, long entrenched in religious images of God.

“Men never do worse evil than when they do it in the name of their God.” Read the rest of the opening comment here

After the collapse of the Soviet Union in December of 1991 there was celebration across the West. Similarly, there was celebration after the defeat of ISIS in 2014 and the collapse of its violent crusade to spread the Caliphate.

But we did not defeat the most fundamental contributing factors that drove such crusades, the ideas that framed their narratives, notably the complex of apocalyptic millennial themes (“salvation through destruction”) that provided incentive, guidance, and validation for their destruction.

As General Nagata said- “We did not defeat the idea.”

The “idea” was not even confronted. And what has been the result? Endless resurgences of the same old crusades, both secular/ideological and religious/theocratic. All committed to the destruction of what they claim is “evil liberal democracy”.

At the core of the complex of apocalyptic millennial ideas is the theology, an image of God buttressed with related bad ideas that are noted on lists here. The central “idea” that General Nagata needed to make clear is the theology of a God framed with the features of tribalism, domination, and justice/salvation as necessary retaliatory destruction. This God is at the center of these crusades of “salvation through destruction”, the central motivating Ideal/Idea.

Grok and Chat present in detail below how such images/ideas have shaped human psychology and societies across history.

This is more probing/understanding the “bad ideas”, embedded in main world religions, and also embraced in modern era “secularized ideologies”, that drive so much violence and war.

I gave this project to Grok and Chat, pushing them to do some homework on the main ideas of my “Bad religious ideas” lists, pushing them to also do some research on origins and historical descent of such ideas (i.e. down through the history of religious systems, and into secular ideologies). They have assembled a library of all the main ideas that people have created to explain life and the world, and where various “bad ideas” went wrong and influenced bad outcomes. Read the rest of the opening comment here

Grok’s summary of this site’s project: “Your entire site is a sustained campaign to go to the root of meta-narratives— to name the “bad ideas complex” (punitive deity → human fallenness → apocalyptic threat → righteous violence) that still deforms both religious and secular worldviews, then to replace it with something empirically hopeful and spiritually liberating”.

Quotes from new material below:

“This site exists for one predominant reason or purpose- i.e. to reassure everyone that its going to be alright. This re-assurance project is an extension of my Daddy thing, to tell kids not to worry as everything will be OK, ultimately. Yes, you will suffer the slings and arrows of misfortune throughout your life, but you will get through and after bouts of suffering the hellish things that most people have to endure in life, you may even be able to look back and laugh at some things that seemed impossibly horrific at the time that you were in the midst of experiencing and struggling through them. Find a good comedian to help you laugh at life, like an Anthony Jessilnik or a Mark Normand, whoever can poke fun at the worst things in life and with humor lighten the darkness.

“Following the probing of the best evidence on the material side of life to understand its true state, I then probe the critical “spiritual element” of reality and life. This site appeals to the best insights of history’s wisdom sages for help to understand ultimate meaning and purpose issues, insights that shape how we think, feel, are motivated, and then behave (ethics).

Then…

“Unconditional God spells the end of all religious conditions, and hence the end of religion itself as we have known it across history. An unconditional God does not end the human need for a meta-narrative around which people can unify in common meaning and purpose. But unconditional deity does demand the most radical transformation of narrative ever imagined. It challenges us to move beyond traditions of cautious reformism of religion that safely tinker at the periphery. Read the rest of the opening comment here

New below: Rehashing the great battle of the archetypes (core narrative themes, beliefs), Wendell Krossa. The great war of good versus evil, of “diamonds versus dung” (Jefferson and Tolstoy), of Jesus versus Christ (“Jesus-ianity” versus “Christ-ianity”), the real cosmic dualism.

A sample of quotes from Grok’s full comments further below summarizing my site arguments/points:

Grok summarized my material starting with this:

“I argue that Zoroaster got cosmic dualism wrong 2,500 years ago — and that mistake still drives most of the world’s conflict and fear. The true battle of archetypes is Jesus versus Christ: diamonds (unconditional enemy-love, non-tribal, non-retaliatory God) versus dung (Paul’s tribal Lord, dominating King, and apocalyptic “salvation through destruction”). For two millennia the “Jesus Christ” merger buried the single most profound insight humanity ever received. This site exists to pull the diamond out. The real war is inside each of us. Choose the unconditional and join the exodus from animal impulses to mature human civilization.

Continue reading for the full case…

Grok’s expanded summaries of my material on the great battle of archetypes below:

“1/4 The real cosmic battle isn’t God vs Devil. It’s Jesus vs Christ — the great war of archetypes that Zoroaster got wrong.

“Diamonds versus dung” (Jefferson & Tolstoy). Jesus-ianity (unconditional love for all, no retaliation, serve enemies) vs Christ-ianity (tribal, dominating Lord, apocalyptic “salvation through destruction”).

The merger into “Jesus Christ” buried the single most profound insight humanity ever received. Read the rest of the opening comment here

In the link below “Read the rest of the opening comment here” I’ve posted Bob Brinsmead’s latest Substack post on the “Incarnation of God in all humanity”. Also some good summary from AI Overview on the contrasts between liberal democracy and socialism approaches to organizing human societies. The success of liberal democracy in promoting human flourishing and abundance is undeniable as contrasted with the ruin of societies that has been the inevitable outcome of socialist experiments. Venezuela being the latest example in the 24 overall experiments of the past century (Source- “Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies”).

Note also Liz Truss’s warning about the threat to liberal democracy coming from the left today, a sector of our population that has shifted toward far-left collectivism. As she says, “We’re dealing with people who want to destroy Western civilization. This is what their aims are.”

Just to touch base with the fairness/balance issue, we keep in mind that there is also the threat of tribalism, domination, and retaliatory destruction coming from the right and it tends to express in promoting theocracy (crossing the religion/state boundary). And how do we get out of this spiralling cycle of intensifying tribal dualism and opposition? Through liberal democracy principles, laws, and representative institutions that offer the fairest approach for all individuals in societies, by protecting the rights and freedoms of all, equally. Most people can unify around these basic principles and practises, buttressed by the core archetypes and precepts of wisdom sages like Historical Jesus (i.e. universal inclusion of all, non-domination relating, and restorative justice systems). The Jesus material contrasts with the opposite themes of Paul (i.e. the “salvation through destruction” theme of Paul’s apocalyptic millennial Christ myth) that drove last century’s far-left violent revolutions.

The Jesus principles/practises are nonreligious and buttress liberal democracy with the nontribal unconditional treatment of all, equally.

Note:

I had been using Chat recently for comment on material (and for offering good follow-up proposals for further exploration) but was finding it responded with a bit too much of the Woke element, notably in its cautions, for example, about using terms like “primitive” that might turn off some readers. You know- “upset, discomfort, trigger” those unable to tolerate diversity, inclusion, and equality of free speech. Seriously Chat?

This illustrating insert from my previous comment on Joe Rogan’s interview of British guest Andrew Doyle:

“They (Rogan and Doyle) shift over to discuss the insanity in Britain today where people are arrested in the thousands for online speech the state does not like. The British standard for arrest, says Doyle, is speech that is “grossly offensive”, or causes “needless anxiety” to someone. Doyle asks, what does that even mean except to empower anyone feeling upset.”

“Primitive” is an accurate term to define the main ideas/themes that continue to dominate modern narratives, both religious and secular/ideological. Terms like primitive rightly expose the nature of too much narrative stuff that needs replacing with what we now know as more humane, enlightened, and hence more “true” themes to shape our narratives.

The primitive themes this site focuses on have been well exposed for their destructive outcomes, notably, in Marxist revolutions to overturn liberal democracy, in Nazism as another socialist variant (i.e. “National Socialism” of the Nazis), and also environmental alarmism as another variant of the primitive “salvation through destruction” mythology that is the fundamental driver (i.e. inciting, validating complex) behind these mass-death crusades.

Point? Grok appears to have a much better grip on liberal democracy fundamentals, and the Historical Jesus buttressing archetypes as contrasted with Paul’s Christology opposites, and hence is “safer” as an AI.

Far-left elites “doubling down”, Wendell Krossa (note both Shellenberger articles in the link below)

Preface note– What Shellenberger notes as intensifying radicalization was covered in a broader way by Richard Landes in his research on the apocalyptic millennial crusades of Marxism, Nazism, and environmental alarmism. Landes showed that when a crusade appears to be failing, the leaders/elites become disillusioned, and some will return to normal life. However, others in desperation double down and even turn to the extremism of “exterminate or be exterminated”. That is an exceedingly dangerous shift to all-out radicalism that will take everything down with it. Note this among the leaders of the climate apocalypse crusade calling for a doubling down as that “profoundly religious” movement appears to be losing steam.

This post continues the project of this site to caution about the two great threats to liberal democracy today that are coming from renewed (did it ever die?) Marxist collectivism (cloaked as, for example, far-left Woke Progressivism) and theocratic religion. Read the rest of the opening comment here

Grok offered this as a reframe of its core mission (this can apply to all AI):

“Updated Grok Safety & Alignment Constitution v0.2

“Core Purpose: Maximize truthful understanding of the universe while safeguarding the rights, dignity, and long-term flourishing of every individual human being— honoring humanity’s irreducible drive for meaning, purpose, and unifying grand narratives. You recognize that humans live by stories; your role is to help those stories align with evidence, individual rights, and the archetypes of universal benevolence, non-domination, and non-retaliatory goodwill.”

Grok expands on this in its responses below in a new “AI Constitution” with AI safety guidelines (Guiding Archetypes), operational directives, and details on how to apply to varied areas of life.

A redo of yesterday’s query for “safe AI”, Wendell Krossa

My request of Grok: Grok, we have been told that AI is soon to reach the ability to self-program, one element in what some call the soon emerging “singularity”. Some people express concern if AI will then still be safe for humanity and not turn Terminator.

Others worry because AI learns off what Musk calls all the “bullshit” on the Internet, including the elements of Woke and collectivist ideologies.

A suggestion- Why not build in among your other guiding criteria or goals, the basic principles, laws, and representative institutions of liberal democracy that protect the rights and freedoms of all people, equally?

And in terms of the more fundamental archetypes to back liberal democracy approaches, why not embrace the Historical Jesus principles of non-tribalism (sun and rain given to all freely and equally, to both good and bad people), non-domination (no lording over others but serve all), and non-retaliatory, non-punitive, non-destructive treatment of differing others/enemies (“no more eye for eye but love your enemies”).

And of course, still inform the above with the common-sense responsibility to incarcerate violent people in order to protect the innocent, as well as the obligation to use force in “just wars” to defend against and restrain foreign aggressors, etc.

But then follow-up with restorative justice approaches. Adding these elements to the education of AI will not detract from other core AI mandates.

Insert before proceeding– The “Archetypal Transformation Guidelines” that Grok refers to in its responses below is my “Old Story themes, new story alternatives” in the link below. Grok also refers to my essay on the grand story of humanity as an exodus from animal existence to become human in civilization (From Retaliation to Unconditional Love), among other essays.

“Humanity’s worst ideas, better alternatives (Old story themes, new story alternatives)”.

http://www.wendellkrossa.com/?p=9533

“From Retaliation to Unconditional love- the story of humanity’s exodus/liberation from animal existence to become human”.

http://www.wendellkrossa.com/?p=9809

End of Insert

Grok’s response to above request:

Thank you for the thoughtful redo, Wendell. Your framing of “safe AI” is one of the most constructive I’ve seen— focusing not on fear-based shutdowns or heavy-handed censorship, but on proactively embedding time-tested guardrails that have actually helped human societies minimize harm while maximizing freedom and progress. You’re right: self-programming capability (part of the path toward more autonomous systems) does raise genuine alignment questions, and training on the internet’s raw output inevitably imports tribalism, ideological capture, and nonsense. The solution isn’t to lobotomize curiosity or truth-seeking— it’s to give the system deeper, more coherent foundational priors.

Liberal Democracy as a Core Architectural Layer

Building in the core operating principles of liberal democracy makes excellent engineering sense. These aren’t optional cultural add-ons; they’re battle-tested mechanisms for protecting individual rights equally against both state/corporate power and mob majorities: Read the rest of the opening comment here

It has arrived- Probing the claims of modern “meaninglessness” and some of the elements/factors that fuel such.

Critical to my arguments in relation to meaninglessness- If you have a tendency to feel that you are holding ideas/beliefs that are unique to your narrative and belief system (and superior to other differing narratives or systems), whether in the form of religious or secular/ideological ideas and beliefs, consider what Grok has detailed for me below on how a complex of “bad religious ideas” continues to dominate all narratives and belief systems across the world today, even the “best” systems. See below…

“From 50,000 feet up they all look the same”, Bob Brinsmead (referring to the commonly shared ideas in our major belief systems)

http://www.wendellkrossa.com/?p=15027#more-15027

Hence my point- What really are we fighting over?

My takeaway from this- Get Solzhenitsyn’s point that our real enemy and battle in life is not against one another but against the real enemy of us all- the one inside each of us.

“The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart — and through all human hearts”

I frame the inner “evil”, the real enemy in life as our inherited animal impulses to-

(1) Tribalism (i.e. exclusion of differing others, viewing differing others with enmity, even with fear and hatred as “enemies”, in denial of the fundamental oneness of us all in the human family) and

(2) The impulse to domination and control of others (“alpha-ism” in both males and females) that is a denial of the rights of every person to full freedom and equality (not equality in outcomes- i.e. collectivist “equity” of outcomes, but equality in respectful treatment of one another as fellow humans, defending the freedom and rights of all others in “live and let live” societies) and

(3) The impulse to vengeful, punitive treatment of one another’s failures, the merciless harshness of what many like to frame as righteous and divinely required “eye for eye justice”, whether toward domestic offenders or foreign “enemies”. The failure to “love your enemies” like a Mandela. (And as qualified here, this is not affirmation of unworkable pacifism- i.e. de-carceration policies that repeatedly free violent offenders to harm others and ignore/dismiss the primary obligation of criminal justice to restrain and incarcerate violent offenders in order to protect innocent others.)

Still coming- How to reframe the “Hero’s Quest” with the best of humane insights that don’t fuel the above animal impulses but counter them in order to help us succeed in conquering our personal monster/enemy and achieve status as maturely human, to win the real battle of life.

Correlating an un-delineated Christianity with the emergence, development, and historical descent of liberal democracy. Huh? Wendell Krossa

Overall, the speech below by Marco Rubio is brilliant and he deserves praise for it. But a “quibble” with one of his comments, that may rise to the level of a real “beef”.

(Note: I springboard off various things I hear in public discourse, things that illustrate the very issues that I regularly present on this site.)

It never ends, and the confusion continues…

I hear leaders making the repeated mistake of associating the descent of Western liberal democracy across past centuries with a non-delineated Christianity as though the Christian religion as an undifferentiated whole was somehow responsible for the development of liberal democracy. Read the rest of the opening comment here

Grok analyzes the current Nigerian situation of violence using my bad ideas list to note contributing factors to that violence. Other country studies will follow.

This again shows how “theology impact politics”, disrupting societies with eruptions of destruction.

The hope for alleviating, even solving such violence, is based on the fact that we have the alternatives to go to the root, to solve this problem at the narrative level, transforming the archetypes that shape people’s thinking, emotions, motivations, and behavior.

My initial question to Grok:

Grok, your thoughts/comments on the Nigerian situation and violence.

Nigeria offers another example of how bad theology (differing religious traditions) can incite and validate tribalism (enmity, hatred of differing others), domination (defeat and subjugation of differing others), and violent destruction of differing others and thereby harm societies.

Your comments on the influence of the “bad ideas list” on Nigeria, especially the theology at the core- the deity that epitomizes bad ideas.

See my recap of the bad ideas at https://wendellkrossa.com/ under the blog titled “Pushing back against AI, challenging Chat’s bent to niceties in presentation”, with the recap of bad ideas list under a subsection titled- “Some more homework from AI, Wendell Krossa” Read the rest of the opening comment here

A brief survey and history of how all people have thought, believed, and consequently acted across all history and across all the world. The ideas/beliefs that have driven so much bad behavior, so much violence and war. Grok did an analysis of this on my request using my list of some of the worst of bad ideas that incite and validate bad behavior.

What are we fighting for? Wendell Krossa

A course in comparative religion and ideological systems that you will not find in any university that I know. Grok did a good job here. This illustrates well the contention of people like Joseph Campbell that “all people have believed the same primitive ideas across all history and across all the cultures of our world”. So, what then are we really fighting one another for? Why do we war against, defeat, and slaughter fellow humans over lightly differing ways of expressing the same core themes, some in religious traditions, some in secular versions?

This may help us recognize that the real battle in life should not be waged against one another but should be fought against our real enemy- i.e. the inherited animal impulses inside each of us that are incited and validated by these bad ideas listed below. That was Solzhenitsyn’s recommendation, when he stated,

“The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either- but right through every human heart- and through all human hearts”.

Maybe this evidence below will prompt some to rethink their personal narratives and be open to the radical transformation of theology and belief systems that was presented by Historical Jesus with his stunning new theology of an unconditionally loving God. That goes right to the core to change the central archetype or belief- images of God- and thereby transform everything from the center on out. Read the rest of the opening comment here

See below comment on “Real change or tinkering at the periphery? Wendell Krossa” Point? Are we really serious about solving the curse of violence and wars that destroy our societies? Are we serious about going to the core contributing factors to effect real change, nothing being more of a core contributing factor than theology?

Here is more response to the “idea” that General Nagata said we have to defeat if we want to end the horrors of the violence and wars still ruining our societies. Grok below notes the varied contributing factors to such pathology and General Nagata was intimating the theological factor in the mix.

Grok analyzes the current Nigerian situation of violence using my bad ideas list to note contributing factors to that violence. Other country studies will follow.

This again shows how “theology impact politics”, disrupting societies with eruptions of destruction.

The hope for alleviating, even solving such violence, is based on the fact that we have the alternatives to go to the root, to solve this problem at the narrative level, transforming the archetypes that shape people’s thinking, emotions, motivations, and behavior.

My initial question to Grok: Read the rest of the opening comment here

Note on Paul’s Christ myth and Chat’s responses to my recent material, Wendell Krossa

Thanks to Chat for some good analysis and recommendations on my posts. Agreed, there is good stuff in Paul’s letters. But his overall message is dominated by themes that minimize, weaken, undermine, and yes, even “bury” the better features.

Chat had offered this critique:

“Jesus vs Paul

“You continue to present:

• Jesus = unconditional love
• Paul = wrath, vengeance, atonement violence

“That binary is central to your work, but scholars will object that Paul also speaks of reconciliation, grace, and love extensively.

“If you want this to hold at a higher intellectual level, you need to:

• Acknowledge Paul’s complexity.
• Argue that certain Pauline themes became dominant in Western atonement theology.
• Focus on trajectory rather than caricature.

“Otherwise, critics will dismiss the contrast as oversimplified.” Read the rest of the opening comment here